Ezra Klein, early in the interview:

Wonderful. Thank you for talking with me, Dr. Gounder. I’m going to go walk into the ocean now.

and then, a bit later:

Céline Gounder

… one of the problems we’ve had throughout this pandemic, is we’ve looked for silver bullets, simple solutions, and there’s not one simple solution here. You really do have to combine multiple different public health measures. So that includes encouraging people to mask up again indoors, especially if there’s a lot of transmission, while at the same time, incentivizing people who are not yet vaccinated to get vaccinated for them to be able to return to a more normal life, for all of us to be able to return to a more normal life.